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how to wire new ceiling rose with old wiring?

I have removed the old ceiling rose and with all the others i have replaced like for like but this one makes no sense. There are two grey wires each with one red and one black, and one lone red wire. The two reds were joined together and the two blacks were together. As far as i could see the only wire attached to the old rose was the lone red one but the 2 blacks may have been in there as well. The old rose is nothing like the new ones or any others in the house. There is no earth. It was working before i took it down, but i cannot get it to work with the new rose. Have tried all the different ways i can think of. Have tested for continuity with a meter and it beeps with all of the wires. everything i can find says to rewire but this is simply not an option, and an electrician would advise the same i just need advising where to put the wires. I'm assuming one of the greys is mains in and one is out and that just leaves the red as switch? I just don't know, nothing seems to work. All the other upstairs lights work without this one being wired. is this a standard old way of wiring and if so can anyone tell me what is what and what to do, any help would be appreciated

suz
September 2009

D.I.Y, Lighting Wire Wiring Wires

Is this lone red wire stranded or solid? If you pull it out of the ceiling a bit, is there any grey sheathing around it in as with the other cables?
What wires have you got at the switch?

Adam
September 2009

Suz,

An electrician is safest but...

This site shows diagrams for you...

http://www.flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/lighting_ceiling_rose_other_colours.cs4

A Ceiling rose will typically have three cables (each with Live Neutral & Earth) One cable will be power in - one cable will be power out to the next rose and the third will be power to and from the switch. Some ceiling roses just have two cables with nothing running off to the next rose because there isn't a next rose...

So ignoring Earth you will have either 6 wires or just 4 depending if the rose you're looking at is the last in the chain or not.

You seem to have Five wires? It may be that a black wire is "lost" up in the ceiling (the switched live coming back from the light switch) OR possibly and unusually a single Red conductor has been routed from the switch and that the switch is picking up its live feed from somewhere other than the ceiling rose. Take off the switch plate and have a look at the wires in there.

The normal arrangement is to have 4 connections at the ceiling rose...

Permanent live - In / Out / Off to the switch (never to the light)

Neutral In / Out (and to the lamp)

Switched Live - Typically on a wire that looks like neutral but with a red sleeve on it - connects to the lamp to turn it on and off.

Earth

Good luck... Take care...

Peccavi
September 2009