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Could the NVM chip be dead after 13 years?

I put my system into engineers mode (0xxxx then opened panel, E displayed). This was to allow me to disconnect PIR's, Keypad, to decorate. I have done this before to replace battery and to replace a faulty PIR so I've assumed this is a correct method. When the keypad was disconneted, my system seemed to die. Connecting keypad brought no LEDs up and supplying 12v from a PSU to the keypad did nothing either. My assumption was the keypad was dead. Replaced keypad with the 9827, LED's now back, but I haven't got the E displayed, all I have is Sr. system reset. 1234 quiets internal sounder, but still cannot access Engineers mode either by default code or the engineers code. I have tried a power reset by disconnecting mains and battery waiting 10 seconds, on power up internal sounder is on and can be quieted by 1234. My guess is now the the NVM chip has exceed 1,000,000 read/write cycles, is this possible after just 13 years? is this known problem? or should I try another code?
Many thanks to whoever replies.

houseofun
October 2010

9827 Security Systems, Home Alarm Systems

Hi guys, guess what!!!! I'm now looking at a display showing "E". It's fixed. So the fault was a slightly faulty NVM chip. Thanks ever so much for all your help, I've now got to reprogram, I'm assuming fairly straight forward! Thanks again, you should see the size of my grin. :-)

houseofun
October 2010

let me know how you get on,if no luck i will give you my address,you send the keypads and the pcb to us,i will refund the postage,i want to get to the bottom of this,as i know you do,

gts
October 2010

this driving me nuts,there is no code "r" norm rt,or tr etc,or rr,

gts
October 2010

thanks for getting back to us,please keep us posted,

gts
October 2010

Now something very weird happened... I changed the address of my old keypad and put a 3 pin conector on a flying lead. Powered down system connected old keypad to the engineers terminal on the panel, repowered, and internal sounder went off as normal. Typing 1234 on the old keypad did nothing, so I did the same to the new one, internal sounder silenced, and I then couldn't believe my eyes when on the old keypad I now have LED's lit, power, service, fault, but only "r" displayed. On the new keypad same LED's but "Sr". so I now think the left display cluster is dead. Still have same problem cannot type anything in. Will try the new NVM tomorrow.

houseofun
October 2010

it should have lit up when 12 volt applied

gts
October 2010

as i said mate,never disscon a keypad or recon it live you can blow it

gts
October 2010

try old keypad mate,but do it dead,no power

gts
October 2010

thanks for getting back to us,just never discon or recon keypad with power on look forward to hear your news

gts
October 2010

Hi Guys, please bear with me, I've ordered the chip from RS components should get it Monday. And yes the chip went in the correct way. When I suspected the keypad was faulty I took it in to work, there we have all sorts of testing equipment scopes, spectrum analysers, rayhams, but more to the point we gave the keypad +12v. now even with no signal surley we should have got the power LED lit, but we didn't and thats how we came to the conclusion of dead keypad. If I'm wrong let me know and I'll try the old keypad now.

houseofun
October 2010

hi again,try one more thing if you would,remove all power,refit old keypad,and go through the resetting as we did before,connecting keypad with power on can damage it,i did all the resets that we did last night on this unit,and all is ok you can buy the nvm,its a very common device,cost about £3.00 just take note of the numbers on it,should be 9823,or there abouts,as alarm guy asked,did you fit chip right way up,am sure you did as you seem clued up,the chip has a half moon in centre of it,as does the socket it goes into,let me know how you get on,

gts
October 2010

Did you fit the NVM the correct way up?

Alarm
October 2010

we use it to test or alter the system configs,as the end station is norm out of sight,and we dont have to disscon the customers wiring,and for security reasons.i will get back to you on this prob,i have old unit that still works,i will do a few tests on it,i have never had a 98 that i couldent reset,so this is why it annoys me,

gts
October 2010

yes,we use same type of keypad you have,we just plug onto pcb,its very unusual to have an nvm go wrong,its the processor that installs info when you do a default,you can try and buy the chip,from www.cpc.co.uk just take note of the numbers on the nvm,its a common part,or try maplins,if you have one where you live

gts
October 2010

Yes all pirs have LED's displayed when activated, tamper switch ok, panel tamper set off internal sounder. This is why I wonder if the NVM has a fault of some kind and is not accepting default values apart from 1234. I notice in the installation manual there is a connection for an engineers keypad. Do you know anything about this?

houseofun
October 2010

you are keying in 0 then press enter,then 7890?

gts
October 2010

it annoys me that i cant get to the bottom of this,i have tried every trick to get your panel to play,
its not a complicated panel,are all other units,pirs etc ok?

gts
October 2010

sorry, i could not be of more help,at least i tried
is the keypad tamper switch ok?and the end station ?

gts
October 2010

Hi, just went through that process, at the last open end panel I did not get "E " Displayed any other numbers does nothing apart from 1234 once again thanks for your help

houseofun
October 2010

try this,switch off mains,open the end station,discon the battery dont touch the keypad yet,now connect the battery,close the end station,switch mains on,key in 1234 key in o followed by 7890 open the end station the display should show E ,close the end station,key in 99 enter

gts
October 2010

Just tried, same result.
O7890 followed by 99 does nothing, only 1234 quiets internal sounder.

houseofun
October 2010

the enter is the tick on lower right button,then press 99 enter

gts
October 2010

key in 0 enter 7890,tell me what happens please

gts
October 2010

Dispay back to "Sr". LED's on-Fault,Service,Day. Enter 99 does nothing

houseofun
October 2010

if that does not work go through the proced again remove nvm etc,this time close the end station,then key in 0 enter 7890,will be here for a while,i have fitted over a thousand of the 9800,brill panels
cept for the stupid door that ALWAYS breaks off :-)

gts
October 2010

sorry my fault,should have said,what does the panel say now,?key in 99 then enter
,

gts
October 2010

I hadn't but just now closed end station, internal sounder went off putting in 0 enter 7890 does nothing. Only 1234 quiets internal sounder.

houseofun
October 2010

sr = system reset (total power failure)

gts
October 2010

did you key in 0 enter,7890?and have you closed the end station?

gts
October 2010

Hi gts, just tried the reset :-( no joy. After replacing NVM internal sounder goes off. After input 1234 sounder quiets and same error code appears "Sr". Tried 0 then 7890 display does go blank and internal sounder goes off before I put in 99. The only code so far it seems to like is 1234

houseofun
October 2010

never ever remove or recon keypad with the power on,
to do a reset,remove all power,forget the outside sounder,open the case,remove the battery leads,remove the nvm,rec the battery,then apply mains power,be careful,refit the nvm,
the end station will now load the factory defaults,i.e.user code 1234,engin code 7890,
be aware,if you do this you will need to reprog the panel,but try this first,key in 0 followed by the eng code,followed by 99 the display should go blank,and the day led glows,as i said try this first,get back to us if your not successful,regards,gts

gts
October 2010

Sorry not giving make, it's a scantronic 9800. Keypad was removed so that the wall could be re-plastered. The keypad was removed when system was still powered but in Engineers mode with "E" displayed. I felt I had to do it this way because with no mains or battery supply results in outside siren going off. Keypad was addressed same as the one replaced, and there are only 3 wires to keypad +,- and signal, I haven't taken out NVM yet. To do a reset I disconnect mains power then battery waited 10 seconds then reconnected battery then mains. Keypad sounder goes off and can be silenced by 1234. After which I get display of "Sr" Thanks again for such speedy reponse :-).

houseofun
October 2010

why did you remove the keypad in the first place?

gts
October 2010

have you addressed the new keypad?
i hope that you never changed the keypad live,
check the wiring on keypad,just in case you have mixed up the signal and data leads,if you have ,it wont cause any damage,it just wont take any commands,
let me know how you have done the full engineers reset

gts
October 2010

with what you have said,i guess you have a scantronic 9800,and no,you have not worn out the nvm,unless you have reset the system back to factory condits a million times,how are you repowering the system when you have removed the nvm?oh,and as acorn says,make of system helps

gts
October 2010

Can't help, we are NOT mind readers.

Do you know how many different control panels there are?

acorn
October 2010